Looking for a few good (cheap) projectors

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   Ok, so I've been looking to incorporate video into my shows for a while, but now I'm really interested in moving forward.  To do this I'll need a projector and a way to connect it to my show laptop.  Unfortunately, I know nothing about projectors or what to look for.  Obviously it will be used outside at night, and I'll build a protective enclosure to keep the elements at bay.  The thing is that I'm not looking to spend a lot of money.  Clear, crisp images aren't what I'm after; people will simply be amazed that there is video and that's enough.  (Plus, if someone steals the thing then I won't be out all that much).

I've seen the reviews on the Torpedo, and I do agree that it shoould not be used in a display due to the low quality of the product.  

I've also looked at the Sharper Image Wonderwall Projector.  That one's a possibility ($50 - $100).

I even saw a 'higher end' Dell 2200MP Projector for sale at a good price ($200), but it was a refurbished unit and Dell stopped selling them four years ago.  Don't know about that one, but if it's good then I'll consider it as well.

Then there is the matter of connecting to the thing.  My laptop has S Video, DVI, and VGA ports (no AVI, I would need a converter cable for that), but the cable would have to be at least 30', possible more.  Can anyone tell me if there is there any limitations on the length of the cable?

Anyone else use video in their display already that has some recomendations, or anyone that knows about other projectors that can point me in the right direction?  I really don't want to spend more than it would cost to buy an ACx16, at least not yet.  

Thanks in advance!

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Jonathan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Beta Testers Joined: 07 Sep 2008 Location: SoCal Online Status: Offline Posts: 1237	Quote Reply Topic: Looking for a few good (cheap) projectors Posted: 20 Jun 2009 at 12:58pm
	Ok, so I've been looking to incorporate video into my shows for a while, but now I'm really interested in moving forward. To do this I'll need a projector and a way to connect it to my show laptop. Unfortunately, I know nothing about projectors or what to look for. Obviously it will be used outside at night, and I'll build a protective enclosure to keep the elements at bay. The thing is that I'm not looking to spend a lot of money. Clear, crisp images aren't what I'm after; people will simply be amazed that there is video and that's enough. (Plus, if someone steals the thing then I won't be out all that much). I've seen the reviews on the Torpedo, and I do agree that it shoould not be used in a display due to the low quality of the product. I've also looked at the Sharper Image Wonderwall Projector. That one's a possibility ($50 - $100). I even saw a 'higher end' Dell 2200MP Projector for sale at a good price ($200), but it was a refurbished unit and Dell stopped selling them four years ago. Don't know about that one, but if it's good then I'll consider it as well. Then there is the matter of connecting to the thing. My laptop has S Video, DVI, and VGA ports (no AVI, I would need a converter cable for that), but the cable would have to be at least 30', possible more. Can anyone tell me if there is there any limitations on the length of the cable? Anyone else use video in their display already that has some recomendations, or anyone that knows about other projectors that can point me in the right direction? I really don't want to spend more than it would cost to buy an ACx16, at least not yet. Thanks in advance!
	~Jonathan

LightsOnLogan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 11 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3187	Quote Reply Posted: 21 Jun 2009 at 8:07am
	1) Projector: Go with the Dell. The Wonderwall is notorious for just not having a lot of light output (lumens) and has a mximum diagonal image size of 72 inches (6 feet). You already expressed to me in a thread in the beta forums that you had some projection distance/angle issues to contend with... the Wonderwall will not meet any of those criteria since it is limited to 6'. The Dell is a DLP projector... Without getting into the exact specifics, DLP technology tends to deliver real life lumens closer to the rated output (in this case 1200). Your projector has to compete with lots of Christmas lights... so, go for the added brightness! Neither are a high end luxury vehicle, but you might as well get a Corolla as opposed to a go-kart. 2) As for hard limits: XGA can be run at 150'... but it takes a bit of work and know-how (skill) to accomplish this (breakout adapters and precise runs of multiple coax). So, no, your 30' is not out of the question, but some other details will affect whether it is a good choice for you or not: Will you be sending just VGA (640x480) down the cable or one of the other sizes (800x600 [SVGA], 1024x768 [XGA], etc.)? I ask because you are in the gray area at 30'. If you are just sending 640x480, any 'ol middle-grade SVGA cable of the 30' length will likely do just fine. If you are sending one of the other higher resolution formats though, the quality of the cable does count... you will get real bad ghosting/standing waves/etc. on a cheap cable at 30'. Since you are looking at a cheap projector ($50-$200 range), a good packaged cable could cost nearly that alone. If you don't care about ghosting: $30; if you care about ghosting $75. If you are going to go "possibly more" above the 30' mark... any resolution is going to need a very good cable. At 50' you'll be spending as much as the projector on one for sure. At 100 foot you'll need to switch to breakout boxes and all of that complication. If I woke up in your shoes (having your low budget and requirements), I would do the following: 1) Go with the Dell 2200MP 2) Adapt the laptop S-Video to composite (using the one that came with the laptop or a DIY solution of two connectors and a capacitor like this one: http://www.tkk.fi/Misc/Electronics/circuits/svideo2cvideo.html ) 3) Buy 30' (or whatever length you need up to about 200') of RG-59 cable (by the foot) from Lowes. Crimp an RG-59 connector on each end. Get two "Male RCA to Female F Connector" adapters from Rat Shack or some other vendor which will not mark them up 10x their real value. Screw on the adapters... instant high quality video cable for about $10). Would I install this solution somewhere or use it permanently? No. I absolutely prefer the higher res formats to the video ones and would recommend them 99% of the time. Will it meet Jonathan's requirements: yes.... quite reasonably.... and he can always upgrade to SVGA (the highest res of the 2200MP) another year. Edited by LightsOnLogan - 21 Jun 2009 at 8:18am


Jonathan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Beta Testers Joined: 07 Sep 2008 Location: SoCal Online Status: Offline Posts: 1237	Quote Reply Posted: 21 Jun 2009 at 11:05am
	Thanks for the response. There is just so much that I don't know about projectors, which is one reason I've never incorporated them into my shows. I've always figured I'd do it "next year". However, certain "upcoming features" have made me rethink this position. I think I'll go for the Dell 200MP projector. My S-Video port is the 7 pin version, not the four pin version that site prefers. While still possible to modify, I see that the projector has a USB input. Does that make any difference? Edited by Jonathan - 21 Jun 2009 at 12:04pm
	~Jonathan

LightsOnLogan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 11 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3187	Quote Reply Posted: 21 Jun 2009 at 2:44pm
	USB is only for mouse control... not video. Since the primary target of these things are business presenters, the remote control that comes with the projector usually also has a way to move the mouse pointer around without being at the computer... that is what the USB is for. I have two Dell laptops which have the whacky S-Video connector as well... mine came with breakout adapters which provided regular S-Video, Composite, and even digital audio (Coaxial). Might you have some similar breakout adapter that came with the laptop stashed away somewhere forgotten about since the day the box was opened?


Jonathan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Beta Testers Joined: 07 Sep 2008 Location: SoCal Online Status: Offline Posts: 1237	Quote Reply Posted: 21 Jun 2009 at 3:37pm
	Yeah I do... I think. I never thought I'd use it, but I never threw it away in case I was wrong. I might still have it, but I've had two moves since then and I did weed out a lot of things in the process. I'll have to tear apart the closet I keep my old things in to see if I've still got it. Good to know about the mouse thing. Unless anyone has any other suggestions I'll probably get the 2200MP.
	~Jonathan

LightsOnLogan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 11 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3187	Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jun 2009 at 7:14am
	I know what you mean... I was just looking for a D-Sub to DVI adapter the other day... I know I have one, but who knows where it is. I have enough parts around here to start a computer museum I think.


Jonathan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Beta Testers Joined: 07 Sep 2008 Location: SoCal Online Status: Offline Posts: 1237	Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jun 2009 at 10:23pm
	Well, the projector is in the mail. Strangely enough I looked for that adapter thing in the one box I figured I'd put it in if I ever needed it sometime in the future (which happens to be now)... and I actually found it. Wow, that never happens to me. Usually I find a safe spot for things then I can never find that safe spot again. Anyway, it's got a composite video (AVI) jack, a digital audio(AVI) jack, and a 4 pin S-Video adapter to boot. Hopefully I can get that to work!
	~Jonathan

LightsOnLogan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 11 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3187	Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jun 2009 at 1:38pm
	In that case (composite available) you can skip #2 and just do #1 and #3 from the bottom of my 6/21 post.


Jonathan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Beta Testers Joined: 07 Sep 2008 Location: SoCal Online Status: Offline Posts: 1237	Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jun 2009 at 4:43pm
	So basically take some cable TV cable and adapt it to fit the two ends?
	~Jonathan

Jonathan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Beta Testers Joined: 07 Sep 2008 Location: SoCal Online Status: Offline Posts: 1237	Quote Reply Posted: 26 Jun 2009 at 11:31pm
	FYI for those following this thread: My projector arrived today. Initial testing went very well. Lamp was very bright (in fact, maybe too bright), and I could choose reverse projection (or even upside down) mode. Fan is quiet, although the unit was warmer than I expected it to get (it was only on for a few minutes). I haven't had a chance to really see it in action, but running a test video sequence through Borealis showed that this projector is up to the job. Bottom line: there are a lot better projectors out there, but for my current needs this one will do great. At the time of this writing, the seller I got it from has a few more of these units available so if anyone else is interested in incorporating video into their shows, check it out before they are gone (the 'auction' ends July 1). Methinks I now have some very last minute video editing to do so I can incorporate this projector into my next show.
	~Jonathan